Wing Chuns Bad Points

[Togo]

Hey Folks

I'd like some what of an honest answer here please, no biased bullshit...What would you say is wing chuns weak points ? obviously the fact there's no real ground game would be the obvious one, but apart from that, what would you say sucks about this art.

Also does anyone so far think some of the techniques are a bit crap or wouldn't be effective in a real scrap outside your local boozer or whatever. The names and possibly a brief description of how they work would be cool

[Tom]

I wouldn't say any of it "sucks" per se, although yeah, I agree we're a little short on groundfighting. But watch Sifu's double impact seminar for the solution to that....Just incorporate other stuff into your Wing Chun.

Whilst I see the application of chain punching, it's not something I use particularly often. But I can see how and why it would work, but personally I go for a turning punch and/or kick every time.

[Dan]

My biggest problem is that wing chun has an answer for just about everything and its always a simple answer which is great, but too many people think its just a matter of learning that answer, and although wing chun is easy to learn it still needs alot of time and effort if you want to get good, and I know at the uni most years less than half the students (of which there are alot) put in the required effort to see good results.

As for techniques I think the bong sau is far too weak to be used in the way lots of people try and use it. I think its only very good application is to cover from a lap sau to punch. As for other techniques if you train them properly they will be strong. and by train them properly i mean against pure aggression not nice friendly and now punch and now do this etc...

[Togo]

I have to agree that the chain punching is a bit...lame, i can generate a good amount of force on a heavy bag or wallbag, but when i try it on someone holding a pad (never mind them trying to take my head off) it doesn't stand up very well, they usually bounce back a bit meaning i have to close in again, and to be honest i think that when put against a heavier, better fighter they'd not fare so well. You tend to see this a lot on youtube vids when its a wing chun fighter against some other style and after they realise the deadly chain punches don't seem to do much they tend to start flailing and resorting to shitty kickboxing before getting KTFO ;D

I'm personally not a big fan of the stances in wing chun, but i can see how they can be useful, although all the weight on the back leg makes it hard to move and a good kick would take u down pretty fast. Just my opinions though, i'm in no position to make these judgements totally yet.

My main quibble with wing chun is sort of dans point. the main issue i have is that it takes soooooooo long to learn, and thats just learning the techniques and applications, not counting the years of practise it'll take to drill the reactions into your brain.

Compare someone with no previous training in martial arts. If they were to train in (and i do mean train their ass off)
wing chun for 6 months and then be placed against a similair person who'd trained in boxing or something half decent for 6 months, i think i'd know who my money would be riding on in a street situation. Not really a weakness in wing chun i guess but i hope you can sort of see my point ?

[Dan]

The more you chain punch the better you get - try using it in small powerful bursts along with turning punches and elbows its is seriously good for finishing a fight once you get it right, as for using focus mitts get the person holding it to put it on their chest (sola plexus) if they can bare it, that way you get a more realistic feel.

[Togo]

Yea we do the focus pad thing as you described in class often but it still feels lacking in power after the initial cantact as the opponent moves back and i have to close in usually in a sort of desperate flailing often not connecting properly. I probably need to just keep practising it a bit more but its hard to do whilst trying to stick to your stance.

I feel my chain punching works best in bursts of two but i could only see me using these pre-empatively really, i've tried it out when sparring with some folk and they're usually easily dodged or fairly weak compared to the solid thud of a jab/cross combo which normally isn't as fast but makes up for it in the power department. i dunno, still just a wing chun noob really...

[Dan]

get the pad holder to brace more then he/she will only move back if you are hitting him really hard , and if thats happening thats good also if they move back ditch the training stance and step in with a forward leg

[Tom]

togo said:

I have to agree that the chain punching is a bit...lame, i can generate a good amount of force on a heavy bag or wallbag, but when i try it on someone holding a pad (never mind them trying to take my head off) it doesn't stand up very well, they usually bounce back a bit meaning i have to close in again,

Thats because you're doing it against something which offers very little resistance. And remember, chain punching isn't about force. That will come later, as you develop your techniques further.

The reason we use chain punching is because it's so fast. You can literally land 8 punches in the time it takes the other guy to do one. True they won't be as powerful as his, but you try getting hit in the same spot 8 times and see how you fare. Especially if that spot is the face.

I find myself straying away from chain punching for two reasons:

1) I'm not that fast a fighter (although I'm much faster than most people of my size...). Although chain punching is an extremely quick way of punching, I rarely find myself in a strong enough position to use it, because most people I fight are faster than me. in a fair fight, I usually end up on the defensive pretty quickly because I'm quite easy to out-manoeuver.

2) I have quite a good reach, and as a result I'm much more comfortable counter-punching than I am launching an assault. And the turning punch is a stunning way of countering someone, and getting in their guard or under the punch they just threw (Zambidis style, my favourite ) This can, and indeed has, got me into trouble in the past, as I tend to come unstuck against particularly relentless fighters. I'm looking at you, Ad. But I still feel more comfortable using a turning punch over chain punching. I only have to hit you once before the fight is over.


With that in mind, I still regularly train chain punching, as even though I tend not to use it in chi sao or sparring, it still develops all the muscles you should be using to punch with, and it's a fantastic work out for those muscles. If you don't use it in a fight, you should still drill the hell out of it.

[levi]

Hello again

After a long break i am back training and have to say.... 'I F**kinglove wing chun'. I agree with the point that we need to incorporate other tactics and styles purely for self defense reasons. It's that simple. Even the most loyal wing chun student will have to admit that even if you were to only ever fight other WC students, we have to adapt because everyone is different. Differences in height, strength, speed, flexibility, arm length, pain threshold means that some techniques work better for some, and some better for others. If you were in an organised fight againt any other martial art, i personally think if you were to think you could get by with pure WC then you'd be in trouble. Simply because a lot of people who do martial arts (plz excuse my french) are hard bastards. So in a nut shell....learn some ground techniques, condition your legs if you can, because when someone throws a punch at your head then sinks a shin into your thigh (Muay Thai) your mobility isn't what it was. Wing chun isn't about being pretty, it's about getting the job done....and quickly. So as far as i'm concerned, anything goes. As long as my footwork is good enough and my balance is strong, I should hopefully be in a position to land an effective Glasgow kiss if that's what it takes.

Sorry, I went off thread there ...erm bad points about wing chun...hmmmmmmm.... Nope...can't think of any. Wing chun when used effectively is the ultimate ;D