Siu Lim Tau stance

[thecrowrains]

Greetings,
how close should the knees be in the basic stance? I have read his book, and have noticed in photos that they don't show the knees a fist's distance apart.

Is it wider, at the knees?

thank you,
Eric Breiby

[Dan]

yes the knees are wider, of course it depends how much you want to sink your stance, if you sink it really low to train your legs then they will be probubly about a fists distance but generally your knees will be further apart.

in China they train with their stance sunk really low and so their knees will be closer but for forms sake they dont need to be that low.

well thats how i allways think about it, i might be wrong what are other peoples opinions?

[superfoot]

i think its personal preference - the degree to which you sink. obviously if you want to train the power in your legs so you can actually use your stepping and stance well you should sink it so you can feel it. if you can stand all day in your stance its a waste of time

[thecrowrains]

Dan and 'Superfoot',
I see, thank you folks, for the Siu Lim Tau stance replies. I personally noticed while following along to Sifu Kwok's dvd, that I was sinking really low relatively speaking, while later I had noticed that Sifu Kwok had a higher "knee spacing" while performing the Siu Lim Tau. Higher, being specifically that his knees didn't appear to be a fist's distance apart. I understand that it might be personal preference, within reason.

peace,
Eric B.

[thecrowrains]

Correction: I was not sinking really low, per se, but that my knees were closer, but my stance was not super low. I'm a beginner = so I must try to train more to sink my stance + keep the knee spacing sufficient. Hope that clarification makes more sense. Eric B.

[james]

i'm slightly worried about the long-term effects of the wing chun training stance on the ankles - having them bent in at such an unnatural angle is sure to cause pronated joints and lots of pain in the long run. [information from private chartered physiotherapist]

it has also been mentioned that the stance leads to undue pressure on the base of the spine, and that the more traditional horse-stances are much better for posture and strength training.

however, sifu and other long-term practitioners do not seem to suffer outwardly from these conditions - have you heard/experienced anything about it? am i just doing it wrong?

[Tom]

Well, whenever I go quite low, I do feel a lot of strain on my ankles and feet, but I put that down to the fact that my ankles are pretty weak to begin with after an injury I sustained the first time I ever did TKD (when I was about 10 and still growing). There's no doubt it puts pressure on that area, but surely thats the point?

[Dan]

The pressure should be purly on your leg musscles not your bones or joins, i have trained with a low stance (not the rubish lazy wing chun stance some people use so you can't feel the muscles aching) however it has only ever been my musscels that ached (at the start but now my legs are stronger for it and can take it so i do it on one leg in stace if i want to train them more). but yer i would imagine if your joints or bones are aching its coz your not 'sitting' in your stance right, if you post up a picture or see me when you next doing wing chun ill sort it out for you because posture is important to good training.

Dan

[Tom]

I do feel my muscles becoming more tense, definitely (I can feel it right now actually), but like I said, I think any pain in my ankles is from something unrelated to bad posture. I get it from climbing too many stairs too, and I wouldn't say it's because I'm not climbing stairs correctly....

[Dan]

Oh Tom btw as wasn't talking about ur stance i didnt know u had replied by the time i had and it looks like im saying ur stance is bad but iwasn't (ur stance is good) thatwas a general comment for new people how dont know any better.

sorry for any confusion

[Tom]

It's cool, I realised that. I just wanted to make a lame ass joke about not being able to climb stairs.

[Dan]

hehehe

[james]

thanks for the reply guys,

as safety officer i have to take professional medical advice seriously for the long-term effects of wing chun, but through training this morning, with a less-pronounced foot angle, the pressure is relieved, the joints move in a more natural, linear fashion, and the tensor fascia lata, iliotibial tract and gastronemius start doing all the work instead of putting lateral pressure on linear joints.

as for basic spinal pressure, i suffered a serious spinal injury two years ago, and personally the stance i was using before put pressure on the base of the spine that would not be productive to the long-term rehabilitation of my injury.

in short, i've been modifying my stance to the point that the right areas are doing all the work, and therefore being a good training stance. however, with a less pronounced foot angle and straigther back than most people at the club train with, is there any issues with me being told that my stance is wrong in a traditional wing chun sense, or should the siu lim tao stance - and therefore a basic and fundamentally unusable practical stance - be subjective and open to [slight] modification for the individual practitioner?

i ask for my personal benefit, and for those in the club that perhaps may cling vehemently to tradition instead of having a training stance that one gets the most out of through training with it. i'm in no way saying that the siu lim tao stance is 'wrong', but suggesting that subjectively, each practitioner should try and get the most out of the training stance as possible to build strength in the correct areas for the 'fighting stance'.

discuss.

[Tom]

I agree with you. If you know the limitations of your own body, then you shouldn't push yourself too far. That goes for every aspect of any martial art.

I don't sink my stance too low, for reasons I stated earlier, but at the same time, I have pretty powerful muscles in my legs anyway, and although I wouldn't say "I don't need to train them", I would say that for the purposes of doing wing chun, I think my leg muscles are adequately developed. I can shift my weight accordingly in a fighting stance, and I can hold a basic training stance for as long as I need to.

I do think it should come down to the individual, as with all things in Kung Fu. Your path to a good Kung Fu is a personal thing, and the choices you make towards your training should reflect that. But at the same time, you shouldn't allow yourself to do anything that would affect your path negatively...

[Dan]

yer def